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Heart Rate.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:00 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't matter. Which body type you have. I think it would be great to have a low resting and high max. But you can perform high, like you with a high HR. I know a guy who can ride in the 200's and I only be in the 160's, both were about equal levels.
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The Bike Doc
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2004 7:34 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Re: hr Reply with quote

wyatt3d wrote:
My hr durning a sport race has averaged around 192. It may spike over 200 but I haven't seen it below 190 yet. During a 40min flat road TT my average was about 184. My age is 30 and my resting hr was 42 yesterday morning. Is it benificial to have a higher or lower heart rate during a race?


wyatt3d: The max heart rate and Lactate threshold vary from individual to individual. From what I can gather from your information is that you lactate threshold is in the 180-190 range depending on the duration of the event. Your resting heart rate is excellent and as you have discovered, you max heart rate is above the calculated estimate of your age subtracted from 220 which would give an estimate of 190.

Thanks,
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xl_cheese
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:54 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Tested LT was at 161bpm a few weeks ago at powerhouse gym here in austin. I did a race and averaged about 184bpm. I think you'll find that your LT occurs a lot sooner than you'd expect. Just about everyone I've talked to about HR that was using estimated before an actual test found that their estimated HR at LT was much higher than it actually was.

It's pretty easy to feel when it happens. Do a good warm up and then do a ride starting out easy and then every minute increase your HR just a little. Do that every minute and you'll get to a point that you're still breathing comfortably, but you are starting to work a little. As soon as you sense your breathing take a sudden increase is when you just hit your LT.
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Jhowell
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:30 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Test v Actual LT Reply with quote

xl_cheese, I'd intrepet your findings as your tested LT in the 160's was lower than your race LT of 184.

I've had similar results which leads me to believe that when I'm racing at 165-170 I'm just not trying hard enough. When I move it up to the mid 170's and beyond with surges to the mid 180's (when climbing or passing) I find myself placing higher in the race results.

However, I do have difficulty in getting off my bike after finishing well due to dizziness, nausea etc. Probably just coincidence.
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JustinLee
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2004 11:33 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to beat a dead horse .... I have also found my HR stats to be way out of "norm:" I'm 30, my resting HR is around 43, my LT is around 185. I've never specifically tested for Max HR, but I've seen as high as 212. By the time I walk my bike outside my HR is 120 and after the first crank my heart jumps to 155.

Several years ago, when I first started looking into HR training, this all freaked me out a bit, but fortunately, I knew with a guy who did a PhD on this very subject. His test subjects were the U of Arkansas Cross Country team. If you're not down with running, at the time, they had won 20-something straight national championships, so some of the best college runners in the country. He said his findings were baffling at first: some guys hearts never went over 120 and some of them jumped up above 180 right away! An equal number seemed to fit the "norm."

So, this may be classic I-knew-a-guy-who-had-a-bother-who-knew-a-guy but the point is solid: the equations aren't worth much. You have to figure out the performance of YOUR heart. And go from there.

Don't overwork the issue: using your heart rate is only a quantifiable method of judging effort. Besides helping the elite get that additional 0.05% improvement, it's mainly good tool to keep the chronic hammer-head or consistant loafer on track. For most people the heart rate only reinforces what you already know
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:43 am GMT +0000    Post subject: My low HR Reply with quote

So reading Wink's piece about is wicked low HR made me feel a little better, but he is a lot faster than me, so I turn to the powers that be for advice on a couple of things.

First: I've got my HR data from every minute I spent sweating for the last 10 months. From what I can see, my HR max's out around 184. Thats prob not the complete pass-out-and-die max, but I've never got it higher, and I've never maintain anything in the 180s for long. It seems like I can hang out in the low 170s for about an hour or so, but races from 90min to 2 hrs (I aint fast) I need to avg in the 160s or I blow up. In my first sport race in July I blew up after 12 minutes trying to hold the front pack (avg 173, hi 178), and at X-Bar I blew up after leading for the first lap (avg 172 hi 182). I have been VERY conscious of monitoring my HR ever since, but after getting spanked at a couple of races in row, now, I am starting to wonder if I am letting letting my HR put on the breaks.

Second: I did both races at Ruston. The Du went fine - avg 178 on the first run, 168 on the bike (not counting time on ground, details) and 168 on the second run with a strong kick in the last mile (the drop was mostly due to aforementioned time on ground). But the next day at the mtb race when I was tired and sore (and slow) I avg 157 on the first lap with a high of 170 and only 149 on the second lap with a high of 161.

What I am starting to question is whether the HRM has turned into a crutch for me; When I start getting tired or sore, do I look down, see a high number, and, consciously or not, let up for fear of bonking? Or was the Ruston mtb simply the result of fatigue and do my HR numbers make sense?
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The Bike Doc
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:11 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

stackout:

Your HR numbers are helpful indicators for both your training and your racing. When you have to pace yourself, the HRM can be extremely helpful to keep you from going too hard too soon and also from going too easy too long. Now your lower HR number on the second day of racing likely indicate your being spent by the racing of the prior day. Unless you actually race in such an environment (two days back to back all out racing) routinely and train for it, your second day of racing will reflect that your body has been pushed hard and your reserves as well as your heart rate will be down on the second day of racing.

Thanks,
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Last edited by The Bike Doc on Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:57 am GMT +0000; edited 1 time in total
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Spencycles
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:38 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Re: My Low HR Reply with quote

Stackout,

Your HR numbers seem to make complete sense. If your Max HR is truly around 184 BPM, your LT Heart Rate would likely be in the 160 - 165 BPM range. That is why you can usually maintain this heart rate over the duration of your races.

Doc covered the reason for your lower heart rates at Ruston very well. It makes sense that they are lower on day two.

As far as your bigger question (paraphrased), "Should I use an HR monitor in competition?" - I usually recommend that my clients wear their HR monitor in competition if it records HR information for later analysis, but either put it in a jersey pocket, or mount it somewhere they can not see it. While up to the minute HR information is great for training and analyzing after a race, it is not wise to make decisions during a race based on HR. You do run the risk of "analysis paralysis" which you eluded to.

As you train, make a point of learning how you feel at key heart rates, and learn how long you can maintain that intensity (monitoring both heart rate and "feel"). Practice guessing your heart rate based on how you feel. This will help you learn and remember what each heart rate feels like. Being able to do this will be the best help on race day. If you adjust effort strictly by HR on race day, you may be holding yourself back, since race day heart rates tend to be a little higher than normal (nerves, adrenaline, etc.). The "feel" of key intensities tends to be pretty consistent from non-competition to competition efforts.

I hope this is helpful to you,

Brett Spencer
USA Cycling Licensed Coach
www.Spencycles.com
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 9:21 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spencycle,

I agree with you. The beginning part of this season I was trying to stay in a reasonable range for my race. This caused me to finish in the latter part of the top ten. At Double Lake and Ruston I raced all out from the beginning and placed 3rd at each. Granted I was blown up by the last lap at each race but I created a big enough gap and was able to go fastenough to hold onto my lead.

Next year instead of trying to pace myself during my races I am going to train to increase my LT and my Lactate tolerance! I figure that if I can redline for 2 hours then I have a better chance of winning than pacing. Just my new direction.
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Nathan Winkelmann
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:30 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spencycles: A great example of what you said. When I raced up in colorado I used my HR monitor to find my avg. and max. HR's. I would look at the numbers DURING the race just to see if I knew where my body stood at the time...I was climbing a mountain(4miles up) and couldn't BLOW, so I was trying to peg my HR at the max LT level. I look down and I'm right where I want to be, up the hill, I mean mtn, I'm right where I need to be.
To be able to feel how your body works is so good. You know how long you can go at this pace or if you need to put more fuel into it. All this comes from training, you look at your HR and measure how much effort. Eat and see how long you go etc,etc. That is what makes a huge diference.
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Jhowell
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:39 am GMT +0000    Post subject: HR, Race Day Reply with quote

All of the above is great information. It confirms my ideas about personal objective this winter which is to raise my aerobic power output by doing many "Zone 2" miles in the saddle on a road bike. And on race day, stay in the saddle pacing myself (except for climbs and attacks).

At this time, I would like to encourage all of my competitors to participate fully in all race weekends - preride hard on Friday. Then on Saturday do the criteriums, enduros and even the downhills. It'll tune you up for Sunay. Then. start the race cold.

Meanwhile I'll just wimp around the motel room on Saturday with my legs elevated. Maybe massage them occasionally. And on Sunday, I'll warm up for 45 minutes or so on the wind trainer before the race. Twisted Evil
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