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The Bike Doc
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Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 1398
Location: Corpus Christi and Warda, Texas
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 Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:26 am GMT +0000 Post subject: Re: workout tonics |
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| Sam Irwin wrote: | Do you have any opinion on Endurox and Proendorphin?
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Yes, I have and opinion. No, you will not like it.
Both "Tonics" list "Ginsing" as ingredients, one disguises the name as "ciwujia" which is just another name for ginsing. Ginsing has not been show to consistently be of any benefit in athletic performance in published well controlled clinical trials. Natural Medicines Comprehensive Database http://www.naturaldatabase.com specifically discounts the claims that Endurox makes. Pro-endorphin is a mix of multiviatamins, amino acids and caffeine. Wait a minute you say, there is no caffeine listed in the ingredients. Look again see Cola Nitida listed at the bottom. That is the "Cola Nut" of Coca-cola fame. That is a "natural" source of caffeine. Polyose, now that is a high quality ingredient! That is just a fancy name for starch, a polymer of multiple glucose chains linked together. I much prefer to get my starch in a finer tasting mixture like bagels or whole grain crackers! One ingredient listed has been shown to be possibly performance enhancing, Dimethylaminoethanol, especially if you are a lab rat! There has been only one published report in human exercise improvement that I can find and that was with individuals who had a maximal oxygen consumption below 60 ml/kg/min during exercise but for subjects with VO2 max levels of 60 ml/kg/min or above (a well conditioned endurance athlete will often achieve this) the benefit was lost. All the other published studies on exercise endurance improvement were in rats and mice.
Bottom line, if you are looking performance enhancing substances (better know as PED Performance Enhancing Drugs, yes even "natural" substances fall into this category just go to http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/list_2005.pdf to get a listing of man made as well as "natural" substances that are prohibited in sports) you are doing yourself and your sport a great disfavor. Stick to old fashion training, discipline, good diet and if you feel you have to take a supplement limit it to a reputable multi-vitamin such as Centrum(TM). (By the way, with a well balanced diet you really do not need to take a multivitamin.) Up to 30% of sport nutritional supplements are tainted with banned substances. Many a professional athlete carrier has been ruined by his or her taking a suppliment that was tainted.
Sorry, no endorsement from my end.  But thanks for asking. I don't mind unmasking bunk.
Thanks,
_________________
Paul K. Nolan, MD
AKA: The Bike Doc |
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Anonymous
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:32 am GMT +0000 Post subject: Ahem! |
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As someone who has never taken any kind of PED I was astonished when you presupposed I would not like your opinion on Proendorphin or Endurox.
In the American consumer market we are bombarded with "new" products hyped with extreme (untruthful?) advertising claims. (There is a Powerade commercial that shows a quarterback throwing the football out of the stadium. There may be a disclaimer.)
It started with Gatorade back in the 60s. Go into any bike shop, tri-athlete store or health/nutrition business and the consumer has a choice of dozen of "natural" substances that will do everything a new pair of Keds promised, that is, to run faster and jump higher.
Now we've got Power Bars, Luna Bars, tuna bars, Hammer gels, smells and bells.
I suppose those are all types of performance enhancing substances?
I don't know, that's why I asked you.
I didn't ask for an endorsement either, just a clinical opinion.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I simply feel like my reputation was in someway besmirched. But I am confident that you didn't mean it that way.
It is difficult to find someone who will speak so forcefully on the subject.
Thanks for your help, Bike Doc. |
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The Bike Doc
250+
Joined: 08 May 2003
Posts: 1398
Location: Corpus Christi and Warda, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:59 pm GMT +0000 Post subject: Re: Ahem! |
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| Sam Irwin wrote: | As someone who has never taken any kind of PED I was astonished when you presupposed I would not like your opinion on Proendorphin or Endurox...
...Please don't take this the wrong way, I simply feel like my reputation was in someway besmirched. But I am confident that you didn't mean it that way.
It is difficult to find someone who will speak so forcefully on the subject.
Thanks for your help, Bike Doc. |
Sam:
I truly did not mean to besmirched your reputation. Yes, I do speak forcefully against Performance Enhancing Substances. I also speak strongly on good hydration and proper fluid and electrolyte replacement so I do recommend products such as Gatorade which address critical issues of replacing salts and water efficiently. Please feel free to review any of my posts on hydration and muscle cramps. When manufacturers start throwing in substances that are deliberately intended to enhance performance through pharmacologic measures (man made or natural), the manufacturers have crossed the line of sound fluid, electrolyte and energy replacement to Performance Enhancing Drugs. I speak strongly on this so young inquiring athletes who are looking for an edge be alerted to the dangers of PEDs and "nutritional supplements" that are touted to give the user a competitive edge. Just look at some of my previous posts on creatine to get a flavor of my position.
Do accept my apologies if you took this as a personal attack. For any manufacturers who see this thread, no apologies from me.
Thanks,
_________________
Paul K. Nolan, MD
AKA: The Bike Doc |
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