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Riding performance on flat terrain

 
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:47 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Riding performance on flat terrain Reply with quote

Hello Bike Doc, or any racer willing to provide his/her insights:

I've been riding for over 25 years but only started racing this season and attended a few events. I've noticed something consistently over the competitive rides these past few months: my flat riding speed is not nearly as good as my climbing speed. Some basics:
- 6'2 tall, 170 lbs
- riding a 30 lbs hardtail (will upgrade next year & hope to cut ~10lbs)

My common sense tells me: should I not be faster on flat than on climbs given these metrics? I am seeing the exact opposite. Last week I went for a road ride, two guys pass me a lot faster on the flat, I accelerate and stick to their wheels until the climb, then both decelerate and one of the two "implodes" half way through. Exact same phenomenon on the road (this time with a good road bike though), I am a lot faster and comfortable on climbs.

Could this be the position on the bike? My MTB is a 19' and feels slightly small (but only slightly), same for road bike. Could it be some weak muscles I need to work on? I know my upper body isn't nearly as strong as my legs but not sure how this would impact the flat riding performance more than climbing.

Anyways, if anybody has encountered a similar phenomenon I'd like to hear about your experience and what one can do to improve flat riding speed.

Thanks,
Nick
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strohls freely
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:14 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not enough specifics. Are you actually faster in a fixed gear going up a ten
grade slope than on flat ground in mph? Or are you talking a general feeling
that you feel you climb well and wish to go faster on the flats?

None the less, strong legs do not necessarily mean fast legs. Yet, with the right work, strong will be faster than weak.

I do maximum rpm spin-ups on my trainer for leg speed. Warm up very, very, very well. Start with a 53x12 gearing explode for five or ten seconds to your maximum rpm. Spin easy and rest for one minute then again at a 53x13, 53x14 each time a lesser gear until you hit the 39x23. At forty-one years of age I can get a max of 212rpm. Anyway this builds speed for me.

Good luck.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:34 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Strolls: thanks! I happen to use large gear ratios most of the time, my pedaling frequency is about 70-80 rpm sustainably for several hours. I can increase the frequency into the 80s for a few minutes, and into the 110-120s for a short period of time, but are you saying you can spin your legs at 212 rpm? I've never tried to push my frequency to the edge but this looks quite a lot.

On the MTB I find also find it easier to climb on larger gears to optimize balance on the bike and for the wheel to track better.

Nick
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strohls freely
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:50 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

nick,
only for about ten seconds, but yes.
I'll let the Doc. explain the muscle loads of high and low cadence. Aerobic and anerobic.
Good luck
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The Bike Doc
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:52 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick:

With your body physique you may be more endowed with more fast twitch muscles fibers which gives one an advantage on sprints and big gear mashing climbs than slow twitch muscle fibers which gives one a greater advantage in long endurance. You can increase your slow twitch muscle fibers by training. There will be an advantage to you in developing a higher steady state cadence in the 90-100 RPM range and higher still on long climbs, you are 41 years old and no longer have the knees of a 21 year old. Also your 6ft2in 200 pound frame gives more surface area for the wind to resist which may also make your flat speeds slightly slower. After 15mph, the greatest deterrent to speed is wind resistance.

Continue to work on building your cadence up as you sound like you are doing. Try riding at a higher RPM at the same speed but just a slightly lower gear. If you have a heart rate monitor, you can do a test to find out what cadence your heart, legs and lungs are happiest on those long flats as well as long steady climbs. You will need a speedometer that gives you cadence read out as well.

Day 1 of the test, on a long flat course, ride at the same speed you feel you can comfortably maintain in a gear combination that you are use to for that speed and still have a conversation with someone riding with you. Make a mental note of your heart rate, how your lungs and legs feel at this cadence, speed and heart rate. Next step is to keep your speed the same, now switch to a lower gear and spin up your cadence from your 70-80 RPM base to 90-100. Try to hold a smooth steady cadence so you are not fluctuating more than 2 points around your target cadence such for a target of 90, no lower than 88 and no higher than 92. Keep this steady cadence and speed and note what your heart rate does, how your breathing feels and your legs feel after 5 minutes. Make a mental note of this, then step the cadence up to the next target 5 beats higher and repeat the sequence keeping your speed the same. You may find in short order that you can ride at the same speed, at a lower heart rate while at a higher cadence and feel less winded and less burn in your legs than for the same speed in a bigger gear at a higher heart rate. Do this for several steps till you find the break point were your heart rate starts to climb above your baseline heart rate and you legs feel burning and it is hard for you to talk. Ease off, spin down and take a rest. Test day number one is over.

The next step will come on another day. Chose a day with similar climatic and wind conditions as your first test day. Now use your heart rate from the original test when you were doing your usual pace, cadence and gear before you spun up the cadence. The variable you are going to work around is speed. Start in your usual gear, speed and cadence that you did at the start of day's 1 test and start cranking up the speed but now using the cadence that you found you could comfortably maintain just below your break point when your heart rate started climbing up. Shift to the gear that allows you to run at that ideal cadence and step up the speed every 5 minutes, switching gears to maintain the same cadence with the speed increase to the point where your heart rate starts to break consistently above what your previous long steady pace was. You may discover to your delight that you are now able to ride at the same heart rate and perceived exertion but at a faster speed with a higher cadence than when you ride your usual gear, at a lower cadence and same heart rate.

I performed this test on myself on a long trans-Texas tour. I found I could ride 2-3 mph faster at the same heart rate just by bringing my cadence up from what previously was my prefered spin of around 80 RPM to 100 RPM and feeling no worse winded for the effort. It was an eye opening and knee saving experience for me.

One final note of caution. At 200lbs, a 20lb bike could get you in the "SL" range, that is not "Super Light" but Stupid Light category. Ride your bike more; if you loose those 10lbs from you first, then think about a bike in the 25lb range. In my experience super light bikes in the 21 lbs and less category are ment for super light racers. To quote one of my mountain bike designing heroes, Keith Bontrager, "Strong, light, cheep. Pick two." If it is strong and light it is not cheep (inexpensive), if it is cheep and light, well it's cheep (substandard and breakable). Keep the weight rational on the bike, keep doing what you are doing and you will find those 10lbs coming off you far less expensively than off an “SL” bike and far more beneficially for you in the long run, or ride I should say.

Thanks,
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:43 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Very useful insights Reply with quote

Paul: thanks for the detailed response. I will definitely give these tests a try. FYI I am 29 yo, not 41. I think the recommendations still apply equally. I did try a few times to "play" with cadence with my HRM and found that as soon as cadence goes beyond 85rpm while keeping speed the same, the heart rate skyrockets, hence why I cannot sustain such frequencies today. The training you advise my help this a lot. E.g. it would typically be something like:
- Pedaling frequency between 70-80rpm, Heart rate ~160bpm, can last for hours
- Increasing pedaling frequency to 85rpm, Heart rate goes up to ~175rpm, exact same speed... I can sustain this for about 5-10 mins before having to go back into lower gears as I tend to go anaerobic when the heartrate goes above 170rpm.

Now on the bike: I hope to find a good second-hand 2005 bike (hardtail and v-brakes) that should make it affordable yet solid. My exact body weight is 168lbs, and doesn't move more than 2lbs up or down. Since at 6'2 I'm already pretty skinny, I'm hoping that enjoying a lightweight bike will help a little bit (it will cut 6% of the total [rider+bike] weight, mostly rotational). I do agree that going to extreme weight savings on the bike becomes a losing game. It's all about fiding the right trade-off I guess.

Nick
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The Bike Doc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:07 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick:

Egad, I must have been tired when I read your post. Where did I get that 200 lb number?!! My apollogies for misreading your weight numbers. I must have been crossing post, let alone my eyes! Shocked Yes at 6'2" and 168 lbs you are on the lean side. And, lordy, I made you a MAF, (middle aged fart) when you really are a TSF. (20 something fart) Again, my apollogies. Embarassed

Look at you crank length. You may actually benefit from a shorter crank to help you raise your cadence without cranking your heart rate over you anaerobic threshold. The longer the crank, the greater the distances you have to move your leg up and down with each stroke and thus more muscle movement for each stroke thereby subtly driving the heart rate up. With the gearing options available now on bikes such as 22-34 (granny) or 32-34 (middle chainring) combinations, the need for long cranks for torque is negated.

Thanks,
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Anonymous
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 6:27 am GMT +0000    Post subject: High Cadence Reply with quote

The best way to rasie you cadence is to ride a fxied gear bike with something like a 39 x 17 or 18. That will force you spin way up there and get you use to it.

It is all about adaptation. You may never ride in 95-105 range while cruisng but you should try to ride in at least the 85-95 range. Then when it is time to lay the hammer down you have plenty of muslce and gear left to crank it up instantly for quick acceleration.
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Nathan Winkelmann
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 8:48 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have the same problem I have Nick. Work on the spining aspect, as you can make yourself save energy, also it seems hard(it IS hard) at first, but you'll get used to it. You'll know this when your HR doens't skyrocket.
As for riding the road, the wind seems to make the difference on going fast on flats. Maybe its our position or something, but getting more aero helps.-wink
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:27 pm GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Wink: I'm glad some fast riders are sometimes seeing this too! So do you recommend the extended periods at high frequency. or rather intervals with pauses as Strohls seemed to recommend? Spinning exercises sound like hard work, but I am willing to give it a try and see how things go.

Nick
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Nathan Winkelmann
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:26 am GMT +0000    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it also has to do with where you live, like Austin doesn't have many 'flat' or 'steady' roads.
I am always trying to focus on the weaknesses. Spinning, flats, high end, climbing...etc. Sometimes its a never ending circle.
I would do some extended intervals of steady HR's like 10 or 20 min efforts.
I would also try the shorter, higher end stuff.
Never stop working on the spin either, efficiency is the key to maximizing performance(I think). I tend to believe to take out un-needed movements, and use every muscle to its greatest potential(some karate habbits)
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